In the last episode of this podcast, we glossed (or explained) the long list of rulers who are in the darkening dale ahead of us, as well as Dante, Virgil, and Sordello.

In this episode, let's ask interpretive questions of this long, difficult passage at the end of PURGATORIO, Canto VII. Some of these questions have answers; some, tentative answers; and some, mere speculation. But that's the intellectual fun of the walk with Dante!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I ask ten questions of this tough passage in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:06] My English translation of the passage: Purgatorio, Canto VII, lines 82 - 136. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please scroll down this page.

[06:28] The ten questions: First, How do we know these are all "negligent rulers"?

[09:45] How is the antiphon "Salve Regina" significant for this passage (and maybe for PURGATORIO as a whole)?

[13:21] Is there an allegorical (or symbolic) significance to the "not steep" approach to this dale?

[14:33] Does the passage verge toward nihilism?

[16:15] Is Dante a proto-democratic thinker?

[18:13] How is political power bestowed in Dante's day?

[19:40] Is there humor in this passage?

[22:16] How does Dante believe political power should be bestowed?

[25:02] How are PURGATORIO Cantos VI and VII connected?

[27:21] Who is the intended audience of this passage?

And here’s my English translation of Purgatorio, Canto VII, Lines 82 – 136

I saw souls singing Salve Regina and seated

In the verdant grass and among the flowers.

These souls hadn’t been visible outside of that valley.

 

“Even before the last little bit of the sun heads for its nest,”

Began the Mantuan who’d led us there,

“Don’t ask me to walk down and be your guide among them.

 

“From this embankment you’ll know

Their characteristic gestures and faces,

Better than if you were down in the dale among them.

 

“The one sitting up highest, with the look of someone

Who dodged doing what he should have done

And whose mouth doesn’t move with the others in song,

 

“Was the Emperor Rudolph, who might have been able to

Salve the wounds that have brought death to Italy.

It’s really late for another to resurrect her.

 

“That guy, who has the look as if he’s comforting the emperor,

Ruled the land where the waters are born

That the Moldau takes to the Elba, and the Elba, on to the sea.

 

“His name was Ottokar and he was a better man in diapers

Than his bearded son Wenceslaus,

Who feeds on lust and indolence.

 

“The one with the nose that seems so narrow and is caught up

In discussions with the one with such a kindly face?

He died while fleeing—that is, while deflowering the lily.

 

“Check out how he beats his chest!

And look how that other one sighs even as he lets

His cheek rest in the palm of his hand.

 

“Those guys are the father and father-in-law of the plague of France.

They know his life of vice and wickedness,

Which is why grief seems to run them through like a lance.

 

“The one who’s so burly and tall, who’s singing along

With the guy with such a manly nose,

Was suited up with a cord of every honor.

 

“And if the one had succeeded him—

I mean, the young kid sitting behind him—

Then that worth would have been poured from one vessel to another.

 

“That sort of thing can’t be said of other heirs!

James and Frederick have their own kingdoms.

Neither possesses a better bloodline.

 

“Human worth rarely rises up branch by branch.

The One who bestows it does so on purpose,

So it must be asked of him.

 

“My words apply both to that big-nosed guy

And to the other one, that Peter, who sings with him

While Apulia and Provence are brought to such sorrow.

 

“In every way, the seed is inferior to the plant,

So that Constance may boast more about her husband

Than Beatrice or Margaret may of theirs.

 

“See the king of the simple life,

Sitting over there, that Henry of England.

His tree may well branch into better progeny.

 

“And lowest among them all, his eyes lifted up

As he sits on the ground, is William the Marchese,

Because of whom Alessandria and its war

Cause Monferrato And Canavese to cry out in sorrow.”